2024 Live Trainings

Call, Connect, Convert: Cold Call Donor Outreach with Sales Expertise

Join us for an immersive webinar tailored for nonprofit leaders aiming to transform their outreach strategy and secure more support for their cause. This event brings together the wisdom and expertise of three renowned professionals: business coach and speaker Ryan Botner of Cornerstone Consulting, fundraising guru Patrick Kirby of Do Good Better Consulting, and digital marketing expert Sami Bedell-Mulhern of The First Click.

In this dynamic session, Ryan Botner will guide you through the art of the cold call, a technique mastered by top sales reps, and show you how to apply these principles to engage potential donors effectively. Learn how to build instant rapport, handle objections gracefully, and steer conversations towards meaningful commitments.

This webinar is more than just a learning experience; it’s an opportunity to reshape your approach, refine your skills, and revolutionize your nonprofit’s impact. Whether you’re reaching out to individual donors or large corporations, the insights from this event will empower you to approach each conversation with confidence, strategy, and a touch of sales magic.

View Transcript

Unknown Speaker 0:03
I love it. This is great. Excellent. Welcome, everybody to one of our, our infamous, can we say infamous at this point, famous trainings for for bootcamp.

Unknown Speaker 0:16
One of the topics that we get asked all the time, like, I don’t know how to fundraise, and I don’t know how to ask people for money. And I don’t know how to do this. I’m scared and frightened and everything sucks. And I don’t want to be said no, and that’s terrible. Sorry. We heard you. So we’re talking shot today about how to make cold calls. Because I think if you can make cold calls, you can make warm calls and hot calls and everything else falls down from there to get out of your own brain, about how to pick up the phone, what to say how to approach how to just navigate the waters of sales, if you will. Once you overcome this, I think you’re going to be a home some rocks or a homerun Rockstar for all of your nonprofit needs. So I’m excited about that today, Sammy. Hi. Hi.

Unknown Speaker 1:01
What a

Unknown Speaker 1:03
stressful start to the webinar here. So thank you, everybody, for your patience in me sending the absolutely wrong zoom link, but we’re gonna have fun anyway. You thrive. We thrive in chaos. We’re all nonprofit members. We’re trying to rise above it. Yeah, we do. Alright, so let’s get started right away. I’m sure we’re gonna have some questions that filter and I’ve got my own questions. So we’re going to start right out of the gate, introducing our buddy Ryan Butner. He’s going to be navigating the cold call

Unknown Speaker 1:32
for conversation today. Ryan, I could read a giant bio, but that would be very boring. I’m gonna have you introduce yourself. Who on earth are you and why are you hanging out with us today? Right. No, thank you. No, I

Unknown Speaker 1:45
I’m from Litchfield, North Dakota. I know, village Phil, South Valley City. If you drove through it, you blink you miss. But it says population sign more or less, grew up in a farming community worked hard. And if I were to just continue to work hard, they would just give me more work, Patrick, so I decided to work smarter. All right. And so how I got into that is I got into insurance sales. And so I started selling life insurance when I was 22 years old. I didn’t know anything about it. But I knew that they said I could train a monkey to do this good. Because I’m about like a monkey. Here I am. Alright, so we’re gonna do some monkey training today. Is that sound good? Pat?

Unknown Speaker 2:22
Yes, you all yes. So. So the biggest thing, you know, this is the biggest fear false evidence appearing real. Okay, is what the fear of failure, what’s the worst thing that can happen? When you call somebody and ask them for help? They say no.

Unknown Speaker 2:42
That’s the worst thing. First and foremost, we just got to be in a mindset. I gotta get in a mindset that I’m ready to make some phone calls today, or I just walk in, right? Just walk in. Here’s my business cards. Here’s what we do. Do you guys have anybody that you already currently giving money to?

Unknown Speaker 3:01
Do you have anybody you’re passionate to do to have any burdens? Those are just great questions to ask. But when it comes to phoning, voting is way more efficient, because I don’t drive around all day and maybe only see like 10 people, but I sit in my office, I can call 30 in an hour. Right? And have impactful conversations. Now what I will urge you is if you’re gonna make phone calls, okay? Stay in the box. If you can stay in the box, what is the mission of the phone call?

Unknown Speaker 3:31
To schedule the meeting? Okay, schedule the meeting, stay in the box. Like if and if you can, first and foremost, talk to your board. Okay? And say, Listen, if you did what I do, which is fundraise,

Unknown Speaker 3:47
Pat, who would be the first three people that you would call?

Unknown Speaker 3:52
I want those people it’s kind of it’s kind of the old technique that they use at sales or insurance sales, right? And so you’ve got a list of zero people, right? You start with nothing, you’re like, Well, who on earth am I going to call you, you know, you got to write down that, that entire list. So there’s, there’s a lot and again, you’ll find in Duke University, you’ll find a lot of these sheets with templates to kind of just figure it out, write down your connection mapping exercise is a great idea for this. But that’s the first thing you want to tell anybody.

Unknown Speaker 4:22
My question would be out of the gate, I’m already asking questions. It’s gonna be curious. Because you want to start with you want to start with a mindset kind of shift here. Because I think mentally mentally picking up the phone, calling somebody have no idea who they are, if they like you, if they even want to deal with you. That’s hard. But but you don’t want to sound like a salesperson and you don’t want to sound like a

Unknown Speaker 4:48
you know, the old How do I get you to give to my organization?

Unknown Speaker 4:53
What’s What’s the initial approach when you’re picking up some of these or you’re picking up the phone

Unknown Speaker 5:00
out of the gate? Well, you know, I think the first topic is building rapport, right for trust and rapport. How can we do that instantly? There’s a reason. There’s people there in this life and you met him that you like you. Like, we think we know each other for 10 years, we haven’t known each other long. But we can build instant rapport. How can I do that? In other words, how can I reach through the phone and shake your hand?

Unknown Speaker 5:23
And so now to make it feel genuine, and real? How can I do that? Well, first off, you probably want to just have some basic strategy stand up, because when I stand up, I’m more excited. You can hear it in my voice. I’m more enthusiastic. You know, hey, Patrick, Ryan botter with CSV now, how you doing today? Great, right? The reason for my call, is actually work for a nonprofit. Are you familiar with nonprofits? Did you do any work with nonprofits in the past? And so right away, I’m asking questions, building rapport, but I want to educate but I really want to just stay in the box. The reason for my call is I want to stop by put some information in your hand or just share a mission, share a vision, be passionate, I know everybody on this call is passionate about what they do, they won’t be doing it. Be passionate about it. But stay in the box, you’re not trying to sell anybody over the phone. Okay, I’ve got some time tuesday at 10am, or Thursday at 2pm. Which one works, I’ll stop by your office, I’m excited to meet you.

Unknown Speaker 6:25
Okay, so there’s two things I really love about this. Number one, is that you’re not cold calling to sell anything you’re cold calling is just to get next step. So a lot of when you’re getting into fundraising to like I gotta pound phones, I’m gonna I gotta raise a lot of money. Well, that’s not necessarily the case, you’re on the phone, to build your pipeline of individuals you meet to figure out if they’re the right fit for an organization. And that’s why you just that’s why you can dial in a million numbers at a time with a goal of not being I need money. Yes, I’m really just trying to share my mission, my vision, my core values, I just want to share what we’re doing. But I do also want to know, if you are giving to nonprofits right now, I want to know why. Like, I do want to know that why are you giving because I want to be able to try to find that why in our organization, right. But I think the biggest thing is, you know, if you can avoid cold calling great, because if you can get referrals from your board members, now you really talk, right? And so we did this last month, I really put pressure on our board. And I said, Listen, guys, this is on me, like I’m going to be making the phone calls if you want me to. Ideally, if you can make the phone call schedule a coffee with me and you Let’s go. But if not give me three names. And tell me about them. I’ll call them. And if you want to come to the meeting, I think that would be great. Are you guys okay with that? You see me just taking initiative now. It’s a referral. Okay. I’m calling Joe. Greg says great things about you. He’s on our board. Did you know he’s on our board?

Unknown Speaker 8:02
And so now but I’m just staying in the box? Do you have time at 9am? On Thursday, I’m going to be in your area. So what bring you some donuts to your shop? So what is because I don’t I think I know the answer this too. But you’re giving them very specific dates and times that you are available, not them available. Try I want to control my schedule. Right. Talk Talk to that, though, because I think a lot of nonprofits years ago, whenever is convenient for anything. Right? So, so two things get me this, which is that gives an air of like, I’m desperate. Whatever time you will give me right. I think that I think there there is a bit of a, I think that actually makes sense to me. Like I’m available Thursday, I’ll be in the neighborhood, I can stop. I’m not like, whenever you’re available, I’ll drop whatever I can for you. Because I’m just I’m just that much of a we need your money.

Unknown Speaker 8:56
So but I think there’s got to be after technique around that. Even if you’re not like okay, like right now I’m very thankful I’ve got my schedule is absolutely slammed. I’m thankful to be useful, right? I’m thankful that I’m busy. But there was a time where I didn’t have that. But I still remember my old sales language. And I said, Oh, no, no, no, I’m not gonna let them control my schedule. I’m going to control my schedule. And so I would just have time slots of either I’m seeing people or I’m fighting to see people. That’s all you should be doing. If you’re fundraising, by the way, seeing people or fighting to see people from nine to 5am or 5pm. Okay, seeing people. So what you want to do is if you have that power hour, that’d be great. from nine to 10. That’s your time a phony scheduling, scheduling five days ahead. How many are you ahead? I asked that question all the time. How many meetings? Are you ahead? Why? Because that just tells me. What do you have for activity activity equals sales or fundraising equals less stress? Does everybody agree with that?

Unknown Speaker 9:59

Unknown Speaker 10:00
We just need activity activity. And the only way to do that is to have that sacred phoning hour I call it the power hour from nine to 10. My first meeting is at 1030. My next meeting is a lunch, then it’s a 130, then it’s a three. So now I have time slots, I can feed those time slots. Pat, I’ve got time on Tuesday at 130. Or I’ve got time on third, Thursday, Thursday at 10am. Which one works? Well, for you, I’ll come to you. Would you like to be able to meet at a coffee shop? What What would you rather do? If you’ve got a great space that they want to be able to come in? And see, I would probably not do that right away? Because you haven’t met them? You want to go to them? If you want to keep your main to kept ratio higher. Does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker 10:42
Yeah, otherwise, if you’re getting them to get to do too much, they’re just not going to the media probably not going to keep. So that makes sense. Yeah, I want to backtrack to something you said because about engaging in your board. Because I feel like this is a group effort, right? You just because you’re the one in charge of fundraising doesn’t mean that you’re the only person that should be out pounding the pavement. But what I love about what you said, and kind of in the framework of how do we build the list that we’re talking to or reaching out to cold? Is the specificity that you said, so like, I feel like a lot of times, I’m a marketer, and will say to people, I need more content, give me more content, right? And you get nothing in return? Because like, what does that mean? So I think getting maybe speaking a little bit to like, how do we get out of our own way? Because we assume our board knows what they need to do. So how like, what types of things might we want to be super specific about in asking, or even just talking to a donor, if you if you cold? Call somebody and they say, you know, we’re not interested? Okay, great. Do you have three businesses that are similar? Or have values like you that you think like, how can we kind of frame some of those scripts so that

Unknown Speaker 11:54
we get quality referrals and things that are in alignment?

Unknown Speaker 12:00
Yeah, I mean, I think first and foremost, the people on your board should be there. Strategically, right? Okay. So they shouldn’t strategically be there. We’re not putting them there. Because they’re rich, and they got a bunch of money. We’re, we’re putting them there. Why? Because they’ve got a burden. They’ve got a passion, they believe in what we’re doing, right. But as we grow that rapport and trust with them, and they know, like, we’re being transparent, like, Hey, we’re out. We’re doing everything I can I need your help, Patrick, I need your help. The natural human reaction is, I want to help Patrick, I want to help run.

Unknown Speaker 12:36
But we need to ask, I need your help. And this is how you can help me I need two coffee meetings this month. Okay, now, I’m going to give you a couple days, but I want to names and I either I call them or you call them. But we’re having a coffee meeting with somebody that you know, is going to be influential in what we’re doing and where we’re going. The specificity of what you’re asking your board to do is super key. Because if you ask them blanket like, hey, I need some help fundraising. Everyone’s got like, yeah, yep, you sure do.

Unknown Speaker 13:11
Right? You’re right, you’ve, you’ve assessed the situation, Ryan, I need help getting this meeting with this person at this time. That now they can do that they’ve got clear instructions, that’s a lot easier to sell to a board who’s busy who’s got to get the crap they got to do as well, you’re respecting of their time you’re giving them you know, real?

Unknown Speaker 13:34
You’re shepherding them to the answer that you need? Yes. And you’re handing them a win, because when they do complete that task, they feel like I’ve contributed. Absolutely. And so the other thing is, like, I have to go out of my way to make sure and engage with my board members. Maybe even what like if I have for I tried to do one a week, like, Hey, I’m going to meet with you, or we’re going to do a virtual call. I just want to share you with what I got going on. But I’m going to keep building a list of people that you know, and I’m going to have a spreadsheet of that. And then I’m going to be like, Okay, I’m about to call this person, can you give them a heads up like I’m building literally a lead in list from sales and building the lead and sit list with my board members? I might not call on that person for six months, but I’m going to be making sure I’m communicating. Hey, want to call them? Have you touched base with them? Were like, Is this their busy season? Are they farmers? I’m not going to call them in April? I’m not gonna call them in August, right? You know, but I also probably want to know when should I call them that they have the ability to be able to give some money to like when it’s harvest time? I don’t know do they get a big bonus? Do they? Do they do they have dividends that to get paid out? Like I need to know information is my most valuable commodity when it comes to making phone calls and building relationships. So when you’re on the phone with somebody you’ve never met before and you’re

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Curious about if I can stop by?

Unknown Speaker 15:03
That that’s a cold outreach when you’re calling a meeting, right? And again, it’s warm enough that you met with them or you it’s warm enough that they’ll continue the phone call.

Unknown Speaker 15:12
General curiosity is going to win the day all the time, right? What are some of the best questions that you want to ask? Or the best questions that engage them? Regardless if it leads to a gift or not? How do you how do you figure out? Where are your go to questions that you like, just to have in the back of your brain? I know now this person a little bit better than I did before? Well, we work in a lot of recovery world, right. So my question and my go to question is, like, are you familiar with seeds of eating? No. Are you familiar with, you know, addiction? Do you have anybody in your life that has suffered from addiction, alcoholism, drugs, whatever it? Is there anybody in your life who is suffering from addiction now?

Unknown Speaker 15:58
If I get a quiet moment, okay, like we’re there. And it could be gambling, it could it be anything, could be pornography, it could be anything we don’t know, to get to just an addiction, you know, like, addiction has no bounds on on discriminating, right? And so whether I’m calling the CEO or I’m talking to a janitor, I’m asking that question, do you know anybody? Or have you been close to anybody that is suffering from addiction? So that’s something that’s close to my heart? That is who we help? So it’s a qualifying question.

Unknown Speaker 16:31
And I would say 90% of the time, maybe even more like 95 and the day we’re living in today, right? They’re gonna say, Yes, I do. So when you establish out, you know, again, are you into animal shelters or whatever, that whatever that is, right? Do you know or do you have you ever adopted a pet? Have you ever done those things?

Unknown Speaker 16:53
What are some of the additional ones that you want to know about the person themselves that either indicate that they would be of interest to to meet with? Are there any qualifiers that you have that you’re looking to? Whether how busy they are, they’ve got flexibility in their calendar, what are you looking for? That’s going to indicate this opens the door to Can I stop by rather than just like cold? Yeah, right.

Unknown Speaker 17:18
i What’s going I think staying in the box is pretty important. So like not to ask too many questions. They’re gonna go off on, you know what I mean? Like, I’m not trying to, to get get to down a rabbit hole, right? I want to stay surface enough to be like,

Unknown Speaker 17:35
I just want to bring value to you any way that I can. I’ve got a great network, like I you know, that I have, I don’t know what you do. Like, would you be open to even just having a networking meeting?

Unknown Speaker 17:47
And if there’s a well, yeah, that’s, that sounds good. That’s great. There. So like, I have the business side and the nonprofit side. But really, when it comes to, you know, have you done any felt like work in the in in philanthropy? Right. I mean, that’s just a great question to ask. But I think, you know, even more like understanding that these calls are not entirely cold. Right? There, they’re not entirely cold, like, you should probably have enough information if I don’t, when I drive by and I see, even

Unknown Speaker 18:19
if I see a realtor, like on a billboard, I’ll call them like in a town and be like, Hey, listen, why, because they know a lot of people. But they also probably like we’ve got a relationship with every house, a realtor sells, she gives a little bit to us. That all started from a cup of coffee, a cold call off a billboard. So when you’re when you’re meeting with folks, are you looking more for alignment with

Unknown Speaker 18:44
the goals of the individual? Or are you trying to align with like, we know similar individuals? Let’s let’s have well, how do we know each other? Right? There’s a there’s a, there’s a lot of techniques that you can use on LinkedIn. Hey, Ryan, you and I are connected through x, y, z. Yes. I’d love to tell you more about this. Is that is that A is? Because again, I don’t know. Any? You say yes to a lot of people on social media, right. And you’ve got a lot of numbers.

Unknown Speaker 19:19
If I lead with we’re connected here. So there’s like that you went back to kind of what you said like how do we how do we

Unknown Speaker 19:27
I’m not a cold person. We’re connected in some way whether my board or whatever, this is how I’m connected. It’s not an entirely it’s not entirely a cold call. I love that as a mental as a mental block, right? You’re not picking up the phone randomly calling Hey, is Phil Hey, Steve available.

Unknown Speaker 19:45
After you’re not an enemy, you’re right. You’re a friend. Hey, my name is Ryan. I’m your friend. Yeah, yeah. Here’s how we’re here’s how we’re connected. And that’s a good segue right into that. Yeah. Okay. And I’m that type of personality already. Like I’m a high. I just people are just friends.

Unknown Speaker 20:00
That’s it I haven’t met yet?

Unknown Speaker 20:03
Well, that’s a really good question too, though it’s right. You’re not a high, because you’ve probably got an individual in sales who have to pick up the phone. They’re not great at it, but they’re technically technically good. Yes. Personality wise, what are you looking at non high eyes to go make lead in on those things? That person needs to first write a script.

Unknown Speaker 20:22
literally write a script out, what are you going to say? My name is Ryan Bottner. I work with CTV, the reason for my call is this. Right? And then you’re going through like you’re having a script, now you want to just read it, you want to make it your own, but that Hi, acids and C’s, they need to process that they need to make it the process and the system has to work, right? I do a high D, I’ll just call and say, Hey, Patrick, we’re gonna mean I’m coming over.

Unknown Speaker 20:48
Now, with that being said, most of the people that are calling probably are higher DS, because if they own businesses, if they’re influential, they’re higher DS. That’s why it’s so important to give an option, give them two times, give them some options, because they want to be decisive and make decisions. You know, so the majority of the big decision makers, ddd decision makers are going to be those high DS. Well, you know, two is that this gives you to get this gets down to being specific for your ask for your board.

Unknown Speaker 21:17
Very much. So I need you to give a call. Here’s a script to follow.

Unknown Speaker 21:24
Yes. And a lot of times, like it’s always good. Like, I’ll, I will have a pre sent text that I will send to my board members saying, okay, Chris, I know you’re a hot like, I know, you’re introvert. So I want you to send this text introducing me to Tim, can you do that? Yes. Great. Did you receive my text from Chris? Now? It’s not a cold call. Now. I know your voelen like, Oh, I did receive that. I’m curious seeds. I mean, what is that?

Unknown Speaker 21:54
Right. And so it depends on what type of personality that you’re working on your board. You want to be able to get the most out of them. Does that make sense? Right. writing the script, writing scripts is going to be important anyway. Yes. I mean, we’ve got a question. Sorry, I have to turn my camera off. Because my internet sucks. Um, Rebecca is asking if you could explain the idea of calling a realtor off the billboard if you’re not wired for it.

Unknown Speaker 22:17
Well, that’s good.

Unknown Speaker 22:19
Well, so for me, I first started doing, you know, professional speaking and life coaching by walking in and cold calling realtors. So like, I can talk to realtors pretty well. And I was an insurance and financial services. So I’ve got a pretty good connection now. Like, the another reason I call Realtors is because we have Sober Living houses, and I need them to be my eyes and my ears. For our sober livings, hey, this is what we’re looking for. Can you just keep an eye out? Now I’m helping their business as well. But I’m also planting seeds with seeds of Eden with everything else that we do. And that’s how the, like I said, that turned out. So I’m want to try to find a connection. everybody communicates you guys, but few connect, right? Find that connection, find that 1% You have in common with that person and go 100% At that, does that make sense? But be very clear on your mission and your goals? Right? And if you’ve had some prior successes with a,

Unknown Speaker 23:19
a sector or a you know, like I said Realtors you know, if you’ve had prior successes, lean on that what worked before it works. So Well, Pat, we stopped doing it.

Unknown Speaker 23:32
Um, I like that a lot. One of the things that I think our challenges in the nonprofit realm, especially when you’re a fundraiser, especially when you’ve got a number of calls to make, you’ve got a big data list, you’d maybe get a list or you have a list handed down from you. Is your, your your ROI on how many calls you make. What do you benchmarking, and when you address, right, so data tracking, I think, again, for all the data nerds out there, this this tracks for all those who don’t like data, who hate like, again, I don’t want to put anything on a piece of paper, Sammy, this tracks with you, I get this, you know how much I frustrate you with this. However, what do we what do we want to do about data tracking? So like, what are the number of calls to the number of appointments to the number of leads to the number of closes? And again, that sounds salesy, because that’s what the sales always talks about. I think doing this in the nonprofit realm is so good. Because you can track up to the board you can report up to your IDI to yourself, you can keep yourself accountable if I have 10 calls, is it 10 calls to three meetings to one commitment to one call or close is that a rate? What’s what’s a good number that you’ve seen? Yeah, that’s a great way and you’re just you’re planting seed with me like, if I come to the board, let’s say I have five people on my board and say hey, listen, I need everybody give me to two referrals, because that’s 10 and I’m going to probably meet with three

Unknown Speaker 25:00
For, and one or two is going to, is going to actually donate to us on the spot. Now, the other eight are going to be down the road, I’m gonna make sure and follow up, I’ve got a CRM system and you’re telling them this is how I track it and move them along versus the call, then it’s the meeting, then it’s the, the, you know, the ask, like, you know, and then or if it’s not, specifically, you’re asking for money, which you should be, because that’s what we’re in the business of asking for money, right? And so don’t be afraid of that either. Like, it’s alright, and have maybe some strategy behind that as well, which Patrick can help you with that, like, I always be having a project, right? Like, always be having a mission, a goal, a drive, something that we’re moving forward to every quarter every month, so that you’re able to share that, you know, it’s an idea it’s a concept, and building momentum behind that, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, you’re not for everyone. I’m not for everyone. Our organizations aren’t for everyone. We’re gonna get told no, a lot. And that sucks. Again, hi, eyes. anagram threes. We don’t like nose because it makes us feel bad. Like it’s our fault. We did something wrong. I think when the nonprofit world too, we take it personally. Because we’re invested in the organization. We put our Blood Sweat Tears in our heart on sleeves when we’re talking about this kind of stuff. And when we get a rejection note, or someone straight up tells us No Not interested. The immediate emotional responses like Wow,

Unknown Speaker 26:31
huh, I guess dry him of like, that’s gross.

Unknown Speaker 26:35
I think we need to work through like, what a no means. And then how do we counter that? Or what do we do afterwards? Because,

Unknown Speaker 26:43
yeah, I’m thankful. I don’t track the nose. Ah,

Unknown Speaker 26:49
I don’t track the nose. I only track the yeses. So I know, it’s just bringing me closer to Yes. Right. But you have to be ready for rejections. Especially if you’re going to be making calls. Even in the referral world. Now, like I said, I’ve learned I want you to really embrace, you know, it’s going to be much easier, but like cold calling is punishment for not being able to get referrals. I’m gonna just tell everybody that right now. Okay, you’re absolutely going to be punished by having to make cold calls, because you can’t ask for referrals. And so the key is just to ask for referrals and your board is a great start, also would be a great start. Anybody that’s given in the past? Ask them for referrals, right? Sit down just to have a phone call, say hey, I just want to tell you thankful. Thank you. Thank you for coming to the friend raiser. I work so excited that you came, would you think of it? Could you would you like to do a cup of coffee, I didn’t get to connect with you much. But I’d like to connect. And if they’re not, if they’re not, you know, in a position to give, which in the addiction world, a lot of people they’re just not ready yet. It’s taken their time. But they might work for somebody because if they are employed, that means that their employer believes in employing people that probably have a little bit of a shattered pass. I want to be right in the heartstrings of that. Does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker 28:10
Do you ever do follow up questions with your nose?

Unknown Speaker 28:13
And what I mean by that is is

Unknown Speaker 28:16
I respect now tracking nose? I love it. I’m always curious on either what, what didn’t match? What didn’t align what didn’t work? How can they and I almost think that your engagement with individuals who say no, you’re going to learn a lot more by the why behind there. No. And that opens the door to either another relationship. No. Right. And Ryan, before you jump in also, as like a digital marketer. Like earlier what you said about being specific with the ask, what I love about the nose is scripting out for people specifically also in

Unknown Speaker 28:59
okay, but can I get you on our email list? So you can still stay in touch with us? Can I connect with you on LinkedIn so you can still like having some of those specificities built in there as well so that the nodes don’t become nodes they become not right now in what you just said.

Unknown Speaker 29:15
And kind of a way that we can still connect with them passively.

Unknown Speaker 29:20
Yeah, absolutely. And even on that phone call, like, we want to understand like, hey, the reason for my call is this, but I want to if I can get a two way conversation right away. It’s gonna it’s gonna only build that much more connection, right? Like, do you support any other organizations? Yes. Okay. That’s great. Now I you know, like I’m okay with that, you know, because if I can, if I can share my mission and get in there, build a report, and maybe it’s not this year, but next year, I It’s alright. I want to try to engage probably a little more than I wouldn’t sales. I’m engaging a little more on the phone than if I was just trying to say

Unknown Speaker 30:00
schedule a meeting to sell you something. Does that make sense? It’s a little different in the nonprofit world. That’s how I feel anyway, Patrick, I don’t know if you would say the same? No, I think so. Because again, you’re on, you’re on the clock. In a sales position, you’re like, I got 50 phone calls, because they’re tracking how many I’m dialing. If I’m not closing this, they’re gonna see the ROI. And either they got to retrain me on how to do X, Y, and Z, or whatever. And there’s a product at the end. And again, I realized that our products ticket to heaven, I get it. But you’re, but there’s a product that you get to sell. And there’s a need that they probably have, right? I have a I have a copier, you need to make copies, this is the copier that you should buy, you have a problem because you can’t make copies, I have a solution to this blah, blah, blah, right? So how do you how do you shift on the

Unknown Speaker 30:49
it’s not a tangible bid

Unknown Speaker 30:53
to keep them in the loop, because they might know somebody, they might have a reference, we might have some of those pieces. You know, I for me, I always, you know, if I if I get an opportunity to just to share a little bit of my own personal testimony, or if I don’t have a testimony, I’m sharing, like Pam Thompson, she shared testimony from one of her people that CF today. And I thought that was great. She’s sharing testimonies of things that are happening. And if you have an opportunity to share your testimony, it’s absolutely powerful chair testimony of something that has recently happened. And they everybody knows right now that the world is absolutely a mess, right? And so if I, if you’re calling me, and you’re, and you’re really selling hope you got my hope pinned on, if you’re selling hope, like I’m gonna be a little more inclined, like, Okay, I am interested, I do notice that the world is falling apart and like you’re, you’re, you’re doing something good, great. I want to hear more, tell me more. And so anytime you get an opportunity to share your testimony or testimony of people that you work with, have you helped, that is going to be I mean, it’s biblical, the word of their testimony, there’s going to be something that’s as good as the power that comes with that, you know, and so that’s really like, I always look for an open door there, if they’re ready to hear it. The Tell me more question, or the statement of fact, I think, is a really good one. I’ve always I’ve heard that from a handful of people. And it puts you on the spot as a person who’s like unexpected phone call, but people like to talk about themselves, they like to tell their own story too. And I think as a fundraiser or a salesperson, you the the amount of work it takes to actively listen to somebody while they’re talking at the same time navigating where your next question is going to be. And then diverting it based on what they say, is a real talent. And I think it’s only honed by doing this over and over again. Right. So if I’m talking with you, and Ryan, you know, what kind of organizations are you supporting? Or like, why supports, you know, seeds of Eden, you know, here’s where my backstory is, whatever. And you mentioned faith by any means, I’m going to have to have, and again, this is I think you have to have a general, this is where like going up at school not being an expert at anything, but just being a dangerous to know about a lot of things is helpful, I think in the in the sales game, or the nonprofit game, is how can you make some sort of connection after asking the question of saying, Hey, have you thought of this, and you go here, or reference, whatever they’re into, whether it’s sports, or religion, or vacationing or whatever, and your ability to then relate with a story. You’re already not even talking about donations, you’re not talking about anything else, you’re just talking about human to human interaction? As a bit. Yeah. And maybe I think you really want to just, you want to cut through the noise, because we’ve got so many voices coming into their lives. So especially if you have money, like you’re getting asked all the time, right? You’re getting asked everywhere, everywhere you open your phone, you’re getting asked for money, you know, this and that, and this and that. And so how do I cut through the noise of potential donors and ask you for their support, you know, but not just being like a normal solicitor, I want to be different. I guess I want there to be a different feel about what we’re doing, you know, and who we’re helping, and I want these people to be on board long term. So I’m not trying to make a quick sale. I’m building a client list, really, so that they can be consistent every year. And they come to our events and they and they, they get on board with the things that we’re doing and all starts with just having a conversation. But there is so much anxiety that goes with calling that goes with meeting new people, especially if you’re a high C or a high s there’s just way more anxiety like like I said, Patrick and I, people we haven’t met, they’re just future friends. That’s all it is does. You find Yeah, that’s true. Do you find that there’s value in stating a general problem and trying to relate to like, do you find this

Unknown Speaker 35:00
To be a problem and do you find this to be an

Unknown Speaker 35:04
unacceptable as a problem? Do you rally around?

Unknown Speaker 35:09
Because again, I think there’s there’s a place in time for like all positivity of positive pet everywhere to go. Right. But I think rallying around of like this,

Unknown Speaker 35:18
this isn’t an issue, this is a reality. Do you think this is awful to you find this in, in a lot of political phone calls? Right, you know, so and so’s running for president? I don’t think that you are you afraid and terrified that they’re all going to break loose? And whatever, you you rally around a terrifying moment, it’s a pressure point on either the community or the things that they might be interested in? Do you find value in maybe leading them down that path at all? Absolutely. I mean, like the first start of like, how we have our mission, vision, core values we have the problem is number one. So the problem is homelessness, drugs and alcohol are destroying families and lives and people are dying every day, only 11% of the people that want to get help actually get help. We want to help that other 89%. So that is our mission, that is our vision, to be able to provide more services and gaps that aren’t being addressed right now. So I think it’s very important to address that problem. And you got to know it. Right? You know, I repeat it every week with my staff and my board, we go through and we I have a core values mission problem, like we’re worried I’m reading it every time we’re going through it. And it’s getting even deeper in my soul, as I do it every week. So consistency is important. Most of the time people will have their core values on the wall. They don’t even know what they say.

Unknown Speaker 36:38
Right? And so I think being able to share, first and foremost the problem, but then what is your mission? What is your vision? Why are you doing what you do? Right?

Unknown Speaker 36:50
When we’re talking with boards, and we’re talking with them as our partners, even opening up doors or whatever, they’re going to probably set a precedent or expectations of we need to make this much money, this many calls, etc.

Unknown Speaker 37:03
What’s what’s a reasonable, you know, somebody runs a nonprofit, somebody who runs also runs a business to

Unknown Speaker 37:12
what’s a reasonable amount of dialing, that a human being can do understanding that you’re an executive director or fundraiser, CEO, whatever, what’s an unreasonable number of calls to make,

Unknown Speaker 37:28
to set up the number of meetings you need in order to build that pipeline? And because I think you need to go back to the board and go I it’s reasonable. I can do x, y, z. And again, I realize everybody’s different. But just as an example, where do you lie on the number? I mean, I will first and foremost,

Unknown Speaker 37:47
I would say, most people aren’t really making any phone calls, they really, we lean too much on emails, we lean too much on LinkedIn messages, or Facebook messages or whatever that is not a phone call. Like when you reach and you make the actual phone call, and you can get through and talk to the person, which I understand it might be hard. But once again, if you’re getting a referral from your board, you need to be making that phone call staying in the box and getting in front of that person. It’s just handling things in a professional manner. So the really the answer is, first of all, make one phone call, and then text me or pat and tell us how wet

Unknown Speaker 38:26
because that’s really the key. Like you just need to start doing it and feeling more comfortable with it. And it’s really it’s so much false evidence appearing real it is because you’re so afraid, like of what that what are they? What’s the worst thing they’re gonna say? No. You know, like, they might say, I’m busy. Okay, well, let’s schedule it out a month from now, whatever it is, just stay in the box, schedule it. You know, so we, we, you know, and I’ve deal with, I’ve dealt with salespeople my whole life. And it’s always been the same

Unknown Speaker 39:00
phone calls and asking for referrals. That’s it. Those two things are if you can do that, you’re you’re gonna be way ahead of the game and just having a schedule that’s full like, well, I don’t have anything today. Well, why? Because you’re there’s no activity, right? You’re so about about the LinkedIn stuff and about email acquisition, some people will defer. Or they’ll say, Okay, I need to reach out to a handful of people. What do you do first you send them a LinkedIn message, then call them do you send an email first and then call them? You call them and send an email as a follow up? I’m gonna leave it up, you leave a message. Okay, I’m gonna follow up this. What technique Have you found as the best 123 piece there? Well, first if it’s if it is a referral, which likes let’s just try with verse first. Right? So if it is referral, I want the person that referred me to give them a heads up, whether it’s a text, I often coach them through that or ideally a phone call mentioned that Ryan is going to be giving them a call, right? And then what

Unknown Speaker 40:00
I’m staying on in the box on the phone. I’m scheduling that meeting with the reason that I want to share with you what we’re doing. But more importantly, I just want to learn more about you. Okay, I want to I want to be able to, to bond and network and connect with you. And then I’m scheduling once I schedule it, I send them an email link. So I said, What’s your email? Patrick, let me send you an email invite. Why do I do that? Well, because I want meetings to keep. And if they’re not on people’s schedule, the chances of them keeping is really, really high, they’re not going to keep okay, but if I send them an email link, saying, This is where meaning I’m coming to, you sent me your email, pops right up on their schedule. That is awesome. Honestly been revolutionary for me, in the amount of meetings that key to not keep now they see it on the schedule, chances are, they’re gonna be like, Hey, Ryan, I can, something came up great. You gave me a heads up, I didn’t just show up, because it was on your schedule. So I think that is a very big best practice to send them an email, invite now they see your email, they see your reel, it might have your website, it might have some of the whatever we also want to send them don’t send too much, though, do you just want to stay in the box? Okay. And so and then from there, you know, now they’re in your CRM as well. And you keep rolling donor doc, right. And they plug in Arna, you know, and so we want to keep them now they’re just they’re there. They’re active in there, where are we moving them along? In the CRM, you know, and they can add them to our email newsletter, get their permission to do that, whatever it is, I want them to get in that circle, right? It’s a spinning circle of them being a part of seeds of Eden, they get an email newsletter, they’re, they’re getting notified of things there. Whatever it is, if you’ve got a podcast, like all those things, we want to get them in that circle, because we want them to hear that consistent voice. Right? So cold calls on the phone cold calls and email. Awesome. What about a cold called drop in? This terrifies people more than anything else, but we’re looking at, you know, we’ve got executive director of a Chamber of Commerce on this call, right? So that’s a b2b drop in and say hi, kind of thing that I think makes sense, as long as you’re just providing, you know, info or being curious. But if you’re a nonprofit, and you’re roaming the streets of your community, what is the value of a drop by if it’s cold, and you don’t know anything about?

Unknown Speaker 42:31
Well, first off, hey, I’m real. I’m in person, here I am. Right? And that, that right there alone is going to be if I have anybody who’s anybody that leads organizations that, that they’re gonna be like, Wow, I wish my guys would do that.

Unknown Speaker 42:50
You know, and so you’re really setting yourself apart on so many other levels. Plus, when you walk in, you need to be looking and thinking, how can I bring value here, I’m looking at the walls, I’m looking at the pictures, I’m seeing their core values, I’m looking at what they believe in, right? I’m paying attention to everything, so that I can want when I do meet that person, it’s an instant connection, I can start having a conversation about, can I bring value to you, in any way? Because I guess that’s our mission statement were people of value who value people who bring value to people.

Unknown Speaker 43:31
So much value so much about the ultimate value. Okay. Hope we’ve been here, this, this goes back this again, this goes back to that being self aware enough to know how to make, how to drag some sort of connection to Oh, I see you played on this softball team exact blah, blah, blah. Has it the same way when you play or you see that thing on the wall? Or, hey, congratulations on your chamber Choice award that you did, we were nominated three years ago, couldn’t have won that. Couldn’t have no better group of that you do? Actually, they do bring anything with you? Do you drop anything off? Are you just there to say, Hey, do you know anything? Would you like more info? Can I send it to you again? I like one says, here’s a bunch of stuff. And I know it’s gonna go in the trash most of the time, right? Kinda like the idea of Could I come back and send you something I just wanted to I was in the neighborhood. I just, I was led here by somebody suggested I stopped by to get permission to do a follow up. Absolutely. It’s always good to me, I have your permission. May I have your permission to stop by again next week? May I have your permission or what time right there. Ideally, you want to schedule a time with them. It’s just the same as a phone call. I want to schedule a time obviously now it’s probably not the time or place. But I would love to schedule a time we’d have a cup of coffee, you know, sit down, put it put more of a name with the face. Are you open to that? Right and

Unknown Speaker 45:00
A lot of times, you might just be working with their gatekeeper, right their secretary in doing that, like my business cards. So like I have, first of all, I spent, we spent a little extra to have nice business cards, the gloss like not the flimsy garbage ones. Okay, nice business cards. But then on the back, we put a little flyer, like, these are the things that we work with, right on the back of my business cards. So now I don’t have to give them a flyer on top of that. It’s right here. They can just see it, okay. You work with people in addiction, you help them get housing, you help them with employment opportunities. Wow, you guys do all that?

Unknown Speaker 45:34

Unknown Speaker 45:35
Sammy has a really good question too, by the way, which if we’re national, how can we call it virtually?

Unknown Speaker 45:42
And I’m curious on a virtual zoom, cold call.

Unknown Speaker 45:47
I don’t think I’d book an hour. Because it would be a little weird. Like it would get an hour of your time. And that I’ve done I’ve done it before, and I’ve heard from people are like, that’s weird. Like, I didn’t even know that person they reached out and LinkedIn or IBM or something. But we booked an hour like, well, what are we going to talk about? That’s dasa D alone.

Unknown Speaker 46:06
But what would you suggest for for for a zoom introduction? Do you do any pre work or pre questionnaires or ideas? I like the I like the question out of general, if I hop on a call, or somebody calls me like, hey, what’s the most important thing that you want to accomplish on this call, like, out of the gate, or at least right away? How I can establish some of those relationships? So how would you national cold call virtual? Well, if they’re reaching out if they’re reaching out to me, like I want to know, like, well, what is the you want to accomplish? In our time today? Right? That’s a great question. If they’re reaching out to me, like you need a lot of times, you have like the 15 Minute cup of coffee, cold, call it national, and I’m okay with it. Listen, I’ve had great doors open for potential grants, and, and all kinds of things that things I don’t know, people know, way more than I knew about nonprofit Well, I’ve only been in it for a year, you know. And so I want to learn all those things. And so I’m open to it. I think it’s really important to keep to have an agenda. What do you want to accomplish? What do I want to accomplish? What area do you work in? Right? I mean, that should be right there. Like what have you had? What have you had great success? In the past? What areas have you had great success in when it comes to the nonprofit world? Right?

Unknown Speaker 47:27
And so we always want to you want to know people’s strengths? And how can I help you but once again, people value value people bring value to you, I want to bring value, how can I bring value to you? One of the things that I’ve really enjoyed is if it’s a cold call for like a sponsorship for an event, is the question of what’s the best sponsorship that you’ve ever experienced? Or you’ve had the pleasure of having Right?

Unknown Speaker 47:54
Right? What’s the best golf tournament sponsorship you ever did? Oh, man, it was like, We got fine here. We had two teams here and blah, blah, blah, Oh, great. Can I build that for you is that’s because you already then know what they love, they’re gonna reminisce about it, etc. So I love that as a as a as a lead, or at least a follow up piece. One of the best sales techniques that I ever been taught was, when you’re closing the call, you’re doing your you’ve figured out that you eventually want to work together, or there’s a there’s an alignment there is not only getting the next meeting, but clarifying whatever the like, what’s a good next step?

Unknown Speaker 48:37
Like, ask them straight up, what is it? Do you need this for me? Do you need the whatever? Like that, I think is a really interesting question, to ask to get them to tell you what they expect to have happen. And now you’re not guessing. Right? So a cold call that came in to say, you know, what’s the most important thing that you want to accomplish today? Here’s what I’ve got. What else am I missing? And then what’s a good next step? You know, what can I send you? Where is that? Where’s there a gap that I can help fill? Yeah. And then you want accountability with it. And if you can put it in your shoes, that’s great. Like, Hey, okay, you know, I’m going to work on this. This is the action plan. So I’m going to do this in this. When should I follow up with you? Like not say, like, don’t put it in their shoes, you have to be assertive, and be like, I’m gonna put it in my calendar, my CRM, and you know, so when, when when’s a good time to weeks you’re on vacation, whatever it is, I just want to know, when can we keep connecting because my best relationships are consistent, right? Like I’m having it’s a consistent conversation. Patrick, you and I, we have a consistent conversation pretty much monthly. Why? Because we want to keep that on the schedule. Keep going with that. We see we bring value to each other. So if we feel like if I feel like those are going to be great relationships, I want to stay consistent.

Unknown Speaker 50:00
With that, you know, and keep getting on their schedule again. So now we’re like, okay, let’s connect what’s been going on, tell me the good, the bad, the ugly. One of the things that you just said, which is really important, too, is that you don’t put any more stuff on anybody else’s plate, you’ve already asked it to their time to pick up the phone, you’ve already asked them for 15 minutes worth of conversation, to have them do something for you at that point, probably not a great ask like, hey, just, Hey, can I remind you to remind me to tell you something like that? No, no, oh, I will do this for you. Right? I know what they’re doing you they have this. And this is something in business, but it goes very much in the nonprofit world to like, I want to be extremely easy to do business with.

Unknown Speaker 50:47
Like, I want it to be free flowing, like that was effortless. I just did business with Ryan and his organization. They sent the link, boom, boom, boom, boom, I didn’t have to do anything. Like if you because otherwise, you’re gonna get stopped in that cycle. If you’ve got some problems here where they have to go out of their way. I don’t want any part of that I got enough problems. Yeah. Yep. So be extremely, extremely easy, like, overly easy to do business with. Yeah. And if there’s something in your process, you just need to figure that out. And a lot of times, it’s just the lead in so I do have a I have a coaching call here in a couple minutes. So I love it. Well, this is great. We’re just gonna wrap up already, because I think that was, again, super easy as Hey, lead into a website. And then of course, if you don’t have a an availability to donate immediately online? Well, that’s a question that you have to ask Sammy too, because you lead them to something simple. I think that’s great. Um, I’ve loved this as a conversation again, just to think a little bit differently, that you don’t have to be terrified of a cold call, it’s not called it’s your job to get some sort of warm lead, asking, I think a handful of questions, being generally curious about all of that about them, whether you align or not, so that you don’t have to bother them. Again, this is going to free up your time. If it’s not a good fit. Great. You get to move on, you get that? No, a no doesn’t mean they don’t like you as a person and no means they’re just not aligned. I think that’s another Yes. You know, note that we got to keep telling ourselves be very specific with the asks that we’re making. And being very clear, I think, let me just go back to the stay in your box, in X, excellent reference to just observe being don’t go all over the place, you don’t need to being very clarifying in why you’re picking up the phone in the first place, I think is another great tip. And again,

Unknown Speaker 52:41
these are just people who want to feel good about donating somewhere. You’re, you’re facilitating their joy, and didn’t even know it yet. And you get to be a sort of a humble

Unknown Speaker 52:56
curator of their cash back to a place that they feel really good about. And if you can do that through a cold call, I think it’s pretty it’s really freaking fantastic. My friend, Ryan, how do people get a hold of you if they need to? It’d be curious about all things. Seeds of Eden or anything else you have going on? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I’m more than happy to help and coach actually have a coaching business. It’s called Cornerstone speaking.com. And you can actually schedule a call on there if you guys would want more any help. I love phone call. You know, whenever I do it, great things happen. Like literally miracles happen. And so would love to love to talk to anybody, everybody on this call. I know you’re doing great things you’re working with Mr. Do good, do good, better. Well, I just want to help you as well. And so I have a passion for this. So I’m thankful for the opportunity. Thank you again, Pat, for all that you do. Sammy, it’s great to meet you. Thank you for facilitating being are we Hi eyes we need. We need everybody around us because we go quick.

Unknown Speaker 53:56
I love it. Ryan, thanks again for your time. Thanks again. For your perspective, your talent. Sammy, thanks as always best partner in crime here at nonprofit boot camp. This will get uploaded here. In a matter of I would say a day or so did day a week. I’m gonna give a week. It’ll be

Unknown Speaker 54:13
Yeah, it’ll be up tomorrow because Damn, he’s a genius. We’ll have all the transcripts as well as links to the replay. Thanks for everybody who came on live. Nice work on the replay stuff as well. Ryan, thank you very much friend Sammy. Thank you my friend. Thank you guys. Bootcamp. Friends, we’ll talk to you soon. See ya.


Make Your Own Luck: How to Be the Leader You Want Without the Burnout with Rachel Carey – McElwaney

Burnout is very real, but totally avoidable. Learn strategies for how you can change your mindset and build a more fulfilling work-life balance. It doesn’t just stop there. You’ll also learn strategies for supporting your team and creating an environment that allows everyone to thrive, therefore growing your impact.

View Transcript

Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hello, everybody, it is March we are here with our March guest expert training. I’m here with my cohort Patrick. Say hi to the people. Hello, people welcome.

Unknown Speaker 0:16
And our guest expert today is the wonderful Rachel Carrie Nicole Waney. I have known her for what’s been like five years ish. It’s been a long time.

Unknown Speaker 0:29
I don’t remember business life without you in it.

Unknown Speaker 0:32
But just always adore her energy, her approach to kind of the practical things of life. But you know, kind of not allowing us to say, well, this is just how it is. This is what life is like, this is how I you know, need to do my job, but really pushing people to live their best lives and make great impact on the communities that they serve and kind of helping us have it all we can have it all we can have our jobs that we love, we can have a family life, we can kind of balance it. So I’m excited to have her here today to talk to us about burnout, what it really is and how we can kind of push through it and how we can help our teams as well, especially during those busy time. So Rachel, welcome. Thank you for being here. Thank you both for having me. I would love it if you would just kind of introduce yourself a little bit about your background, and then just kind of jump right into kind of the burnout buzzword and what it means. Yeah, so I am an energy leadership coach and a people strategist. I have 20 years of HR behind me, which backs that Sherm certified a CP that we were just talking about a little bit ago. What do all these things mean? So Sherm is kind of the party that is over all of HR. And SCP just means I’m a senior level,

Unknown Speaker 1:49
professional, and HR. But I’m also an ICF, certified coach, and a mindfulness facilitator, certified workplace mindfulness facilitator and a Reiki Master. And really where all of that swirls together is, I just identified that every workplace is all about people. And people are all about energy, the way that we connect the way that we show up the way that we do our work. And the way that we avoid burnout.

Unknown Speaker 2:17
That was amazing. And better than I could ever say, because energy is so important. Okay, so let’s talk about let’s start with, kind of, how do we know that we’re coming to burnout? Like, what is burnout? How can we kind of differentiate burnout from like, we’re just in a busy season, like, how do we kind of start to understand that we’re going too far down that hill, that we might need to kind of rein it back in?

Unknown Speaker 2:44
Yeah. And I think that’s a really great question. One of the things that’s really important is that burnout can look a lot like depression. So if we’re starting to feel some of the things that we talked about today, and we’re not sure we might need to have that checked out, just to make sure that we’re addressing the correct thing. But at the end of the day, burnout is not having enough energy being completely depleted. I call it the puddle on the floor, right? Like oh, we just we’ve given we’ve gone gone gone gone so much for so long, with with emotional and physical and mental stress, that we now have nothing left. So it can feel hopeless, it can. I know that I’m headed to it. And when I start making the bed, there’s my first sign but my second sign is when I’m just like a puddle after work and just watching TV or and I can’t even watch the stressful shows because it’s too much. I can’t handle the drama anymore. I’m I’m at that point. So those are the things when you start noticing that there’s a difference in how you’re showing up that you’re you don’t have the energy to make dinner, you don’t have the energy to even watch a show, right? Like your your normal activities are being disrupted, you can start looking at it, it’s

Unknown Speaker 3:51
hopeless, unsure, overwhelmed, exhausted, and overstimulated are kind of the terms that are associated with burnout.

Unknown Speaker 4:01
And so like in fundraising, and Patrick, I’d be interested in your kind of thought on this. But in fundraising, I feel like there’s a cycle that we live in, right? So you’re kind of in these phases, where things are like, okay, we’re just kind of in between events, or we’re in between, like, we’re not at year end giving yet or we’re not like we’re not really in a busy season, and then all of a sudden, you’re like in a super busy season. So how like, is there like a healthy amount of those kinds of stresses where we when we know we’re in like a crazy period? Like, would we want to look at how quickly we bounce back how quickly we recover from those busy seasons? Or how can we kind of manage different levels during different times, if that makes sense? Absolutely. I think that one of the things that comes up is that there’s a spike in activity. And when we have that spike in activity, what we start thinking about is like I shared I stopped making the bed because that’s something I can skip.

Unknown Speaker 4:56
But when we start cutting out the things that are refueling us

Unknown Speaker 5:00
We start to harm ourselves a little bit. So I’m making sure that we are taking care of that self care and things like that. When we’re knowing that there’s a spike, instead of just letting go of everything, making sure that we’re just very intentional about what we’re doing to refuel, I think it was listening to Brene Brown on an interview recently, where she said, You know, I come in, and my partner’s, like, I’m at a 20. And I’m like, Okay, I got you at the ad.

Unknown Speaker 5:27
So that there’s that support. So we’re aware, there’s an intentional approach to when we are lower in space. And I think that we need to do that for ourselves and say, I know my job has a spike every year here. And in order to manage that, I need to make sure that while I’m making space for that spike, I still make space for XYZ that helped take care of me during that spike. And I know I had, I actually had a career strategy client who was all in the fundraising space for a nonprofit. And it was all done, all done, done done with it. And we had to do a lot of kind of work around. Well, what parts are we done with? And what are the shifts in it? And how are we looking at that? And how is that draining us?

Unknown Speaker 6:07
To realign and after the work that we did, they were like, I love my job. For the first time in my in my entire career. I love my job.

Unknown Speaker 6:16

Unknown Speaker 6:17
So I’m reading this list, and I’m like, Oh, this is just this is just like other duties as assigned for a fundraiser is just like going through like these are this. These are the feelings that you have to have as a fundraiser, apparently, because that, I think is where people live in the nonprofit realm. They don’t know any different because everything is chaos all the time. But my question is, and so and this, maybe this is hyper specific to me, but I don’t think it is because I’ve worked in this space for 20 years. The things that refuel me, simultaneously drain me because right so it’s the peopling peopling gets me like to that high that you’re like, Okay, I love this. I’m having a great conversation. But it’s also active listening, that requires me that drains all of my energy that I need to reboost I’m really boosted by having additional conversations with other people that I’m doing hyper listening at. And so my burnout becomes the thing that I love, because it takes the most amount of energy. Riddle me this because I think a lot of fundraisers are in this boat in which they they keep chasing that adrenaline high of having wonderful conversations, getting a quick win getting these these wonderful nuggets of information that makes you feel like you’re related better to someone else. And at the same time, that takes an enormous amount of energy that you put out. What haha, now what do you do, I’m stuck in this endless circle that I will never recover from unless I go and recover ourselves. Yeah, it makes me think of people that are gym people. And it’s like, they don’t always go in and do leg day, every day, all day.

Unknown Speaker 8:01
Because if they do, they’d be off balance. And they probably start wearing out those muscles too, right? It’s a balance, you hear about them going in and they work this part and then they work this part and then they work this part. So if you’re in a period where you’re fundraising, and that means a spike of peopling that’s really fueling you and exciting you but also is draining you because you’re tapping into active listening, which is where you’re holding space so deeply that you’re hearing not just what’s being said, but But hearing what’s between the lines that are right. So you are you are putting all of you into that conversation.

Unknown Speaker 8:34
What can you do that the opposites like in mindfulness, we have a practice where, like in life or just go go going and doing doing doing thinking, thinking thinking. So mindfulness gives you that opportunity to just whatever minutes a day, sit back and not think as best you can practice not thinking really, truly right? And practice coming back to yourself to create that balance and that forward motion versus the push of the pole. Right? You need to have that balance in it. So what I’m hearing you say, Patrick, is I love having conversations with people, it really energizes me but when I’m in a spike for fundraising, I have to have a lot of that. So what is your counterbalance? What is the other thing you can exercise that refuels you, but is not overextending that one specific skill set. What I love about that, too, is that it forces you to schedule out something and I think I think a lot of times when we are, you know high personalities that we think scheduling is inauthentic, right? If I’m scheduling a thank you call. It’s not as authentic of me just picking up the phone and randomly thinking about somebody etc. When it is the most purposeful and the most meaningful if you’re scheduling it out because then you can actually take those mental breaks too. So I just I love your reframe on that, that it’s okay to just compartmentalize some of these things into into pieces and it’s not in authentic to me

Unknown Speaker 10:00
manually put in your to do list. And it’s probably better for you in the end as well. I just I like that as a reframe. It’s so good. So appreciate I think being intentional about our time is really, really important. And what I hear you saying is like, well, I don’t, don’t then don’t schedule I’m calling Susie yet to say from two to three, I’m going to make these types of calls. And Suzanne’s who I’m calling today, I might call Paul to write like, just that way you can you can create the space of I’m going to make these intentional phone calls, and you can then authentically decide in the moment, who am I going to call? Love it? Well, and I know being intentional with your time is one of your strategies that we were going to jump into. So maybe like expand on that for us a little bit like what other ways might we want to think I mean, you’ve already talked about making sure we schedule in like the self care like the refuel time. But like in general, like what tips do you have for us to be intentional with our time? And how can we as leader support that for our team so that we are working a little bit more

Unknown Speaker 10:56
cohesively are we have the space to kind of do this work and kind of like practice that as a group?

Unknown Speaker 11:03
reframe the question or not reframe but repeat the part with the team. So I want to make sure I grab that part of the question. So just I mean, because I think there’s two parts, right? There’s like, how do I work best? And how do I want to be intentional with my time, but you know, then sometimes when we work within a team, not everybody works the same way. So then how, as a leader, can we kind of help support our teams to make sure that we are being functional as a team, but also supporting this the individual pneus of our our players? Yeah, absolutely. And so I think that being being intentional with your time is one of those things I am big on it started, my acupuncture says I’m the poster child for self care, because I’m so intentional about my time. But the reason for that is because I used to not be intentional about my time. And what I find especially in with compassionate leaders, and I find a lot of compassionate leaders in the nonprofit space is we want to give and we want to serve and we want to help others and we have this mission that’s really, really important. And it’s bigger than ourselves. So we want to give all of us to it. But when we are giving all of us to it, and we don’t have anything left, then then we go from giving them our all to giving them nothing it’s on off. So for me as an HR professional, what it looked like was I was giving my all I was working late hours, I was really cranking it as making things happen. And then I was chronically ill like I was just so sec, right? Because my immune system dropped. So being intentional is is identifying what are the key things, the things that are most important to do. So in in like the fundraising, you’ve got like that the income producing activity kind of thing that you’ve got to be really targeted, what are the things that are doing? Those are going to be the most important? How often do I need to be doing that? But also, how often do I need to be making sure that I’m taking care of me? So that push pull that we just talked about?

Unknown Speaker 12:51
And also what are the other things, the deliverables that I still need to show up on? So you figure out what are your key things? What are your goals right now? And what are the key activities that you need to make space for? How often do you need to be doing those things? And how often do you need to be doing the things that take care of yourself and then look at your schedule. And so the thing that I really focus in on with in the wind down method that I have is a four step process. And it’s really about taking into consideration each week. What is it that are on my what’s my key things list? What are the key goals? What are the key activities that I need to be doing? Let me sync up all of those places where I’m committed to somebody else I’ve made. I’ve got meetings I have to show up for I got deadlines that I’ve got here. And now with the space that’s left, where am I making sure that I’m touching all of these other things. But in addition to that, we have this step of looking back and saying how well did I do on that last week? Did I cancel my yoga class that was my that was my first go to like I cancelled my my yoga class. And I stopped showing up for this.

Unknown Speaker 13:54
What are the things that were very important, that are showing me that I need to make sure that I’m making space for it. Because to Patrick’s point before about the spiking is, you might you might not be able to do that this week. But make sure you don’t go further out than another week to make sure that you’re taking care of you and that those things are being plugged in. So I recommend pre week planning and just finding a place in your schedule. I usually recommend for those of us that are Monday through Friday that we pick Thursday afternoon or Friday morning to do our pre week planning so that we can look ahead, see what’s ahead, make sure that we have time and space in this week to wrap up what we need to in preparation for that. And also we can reschedule things as we need to and create buffers. And the other thing I recommend is tweaking your time where your meetings are 50 minutes instead of 60. That way everybody gets 10 minutes. So to go to the point of the team, and to ensure that we are working with an awareness of when people are working best and what works best for them for meetings versus like Tuesday’s or the days that we have no meetings or something to that effect so that we can get

Unknown Speaker 15:00
They’ll work done whatever works within that culture to start building that and being aware of it and being intentional about how you’re executing. The culture building thing is a really interesting concept around this sort of valuing time. And

Unknown Speaker 15:14
I’m sure you’ve seen this, it feels generational. Right? So if you’re in the nonprofit space, you’ve got a lot of founders old school old guard. I’m using old and that’s probably not right, because there’s people who are

Unknown Speaker 15:28
certain age that get this kind of concept. But there’s a lot of individuals

Unknown Speaker 15:33
out there you go, experience. There you go. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 15:36
But Rachel, I’m sure, in your number of years of experience in the HR world, there are those groups of individuals that hey, thanks for the woowoo fufu stuff here. I was, when I was your age, I was just told the buck up. And just and just deal with it. I didn’t need any of this personal space. I don’t even take personal space. How come you get to do this, when I been blocked, you know, the whole like routine. So this, I love this conversation, because it’s so important, because I think everything is completely changed and everything is different. But how do you approach it from a knot, they get this opportunity, and they get to do all this, but I don’t and I sort of have that resentment in it that they are, they’re soft, and they don’t like because that is a real massive

Unknown Speaker 16:26
butting heads of personalities within a culture, specially old school nonprofit stuff. Hmm, that’s a really good question, Patrick, that kind of like, opens up so many things. And I’ve shared with Sammy, I have ADHD. So my brain just went into like, it was like a firework of directions. I was I was I was warned about this. And I warned Sammy, that myself with my undiagnosed adult on ADHD that you and I are gonna have a great time with this. But that means that means a lot of rail tracks are gonna go in a different direction. But I feel like that’s why it’s like this. So I tried to pull it into a picture.

Unknown Speaker 17:01
But I think that there’s a lot and there’s, there is a lot. I have had the honor of working with a lot of clients and the nonprofit for multiple different reasons that they come to me. But I have seen and heard the stories of

Unknown Speaker 17:19
the executive nonprofit leader who feels like well, you should, you should want to give all of yourself to this mission, because that’s how we do things. And that person’s like, yes, and money is also very important to me, right? Right there. There’s a balance, there’s always a balance, there’s going to be different values that are coming through generationally. And to be honest, culturally, we don’t live in a world that is like,

Unknown Speaker 17:42
isolated, and culture were now meshing. And so I think that what’s really important, especially for these executives, that might have a more mature experience, as Sammy said that they have been doing these things for a while and are coming from the

Unknown Speaker 17:58
the old ways of doing things, what no matter what age they are, some of them are just indoctrinated into the old way of doing things, and that this shift is happening. So if you really want to drive it, it boils down to the people. So we want to be compassionate about our mission and this amazing thing that we have to serve, you have to start with internal service, if you want to have that external service. So looking at it, like you want to add value to these other people you want these people to show up best, you gotta be able to like work with them first. So what is losing 510 minutes on a meeting really going to do other than allow them have tough time to have water and a potty break? So they’re not doing sessions, right? Or what? What is it and so

Unknown Speaker 18:40
as an HR professional that has had to navigate multiple generations and values that have come up with them, I think that it always boils down to your ability to influence others by tapping to the values that they have. And figuring out what that value is for that executive that might be coming into the conversation of why I’ve always had to do it this way. So for me, it’s that it would depend, it would be my answer. And it would depend on that executive and getting to know what’s important to them. And speaking to that as to why it’s important to create these shifts. Well, isn’t there studies out there that show like if you want to pull the woowoo piece out of it, and say like this type of thing leads to productivity, increase productivity and increase employee retention? I want to tap into just a timeout for a second because woowoo is if I brought my tarot cards into this conversation, right? Well, I’m waiting for that, by the way where I got you I got a poster on the desk, but in the crystals are in the background, but the thing of it is, is that it’s not woowoo it’s right human. And what we did as a culture as a society back in the early 1900s was we created factory line workers and the way that you did things and it needed to be time oriented and it needed to be this is when you execute things. We’re not in that world anymore. We’re in a world that

Unknown Speaker 20:00
cannot deny the human that is in it. And so we’ve got to work with the humans, because it’s not, the organization is not the thing. It’s the humans that are in it and the spirit that drives them the energy that drives them into executing, we need to take care of that. First, if we want to have any, any idea of an organization. We’re not, we’re not machines, we’re humans. And we have to make sure that we’re building organizations around that human component. What I love about this too, though, it forces you to ask the question to the to the Old Guard, the mature ones, the old school ones, like Hey, what did you use to unwind? Right? What what’s your what’s your go to unwinding thing? It might not be yoga, it might be a Scotch after the end of the day, it might be like, right.

Unknown Speaker 20:43
And I go, Okay, well, this is our version of how you unwind. And and I think that relatability from asking the question to them is like, how do you do this? And you come from a place I think of curiosity, which I which I think is the underlying piece here that you’re that you’re just explaining in wonderful detail, it’s, it’s being curious on how to meet everybody where they are. And that’s that people element that I think is so missing, that we treat our donors the same way. But our co workers in our leadership team, we have a different standard of curiosity and engagement. And it should be the exact same, you got a playbook for this, you wouldn’t go and just assume your donors are obnoxiously chaotic, because they have this, you know, piece of whatever it’s, it’s, it’s totally different. Right.

Unknown Speaker 21:33
I wanted to jump back into your question or your conversation about like setting up the schedule in regards to this because

Unknown Speaker 21:42
I love what you said about if you skipped yoga this week, or you skipped your refuel this week, just because it was a week on that that’s fine, but don’t keep doing it. So at what point do because I know I have struggled with my morning routine. And I’ve changed it several times, because I haven’t quite fit that like sweet spot for what works best for me, I keep trying different things. But how often should we be kind of assessing? You know, is this working for me? Or am I trying to work within this framework? And like, let things go versus like, I’m gonna keep trying this for a period of time? Like it’s kind of an ever evolving?

Unknown Speaker 22:18
situation, right moving target?

Unknown Speaker 22:20
A little bit? And my answer to that, unfortunately, is it depends. And it depends a lot, because we’re humans, and so every human needs a different thing. So what I would say is just to be intentional about how long are you going to give something ago, I usually try to give it 90 days.

Unknown Speaker 22:36
And truly, I just didn’t checking any each week. And so with each week, I’m like, is that still important to me? Yep. Okay, then that stays on the list. And it’s important to me, how did I do and, and what do I need to change? So for me, I’m checking it each week, as far as what’s on the list? And is it still important, but my overall, my overall, like, morning routine doesn’t shift very much.

Unknown Speaker 23:03
At least in the last 90 days, it hasn’t shifted very much. But if I compare it to two years ago, it’s very different. So I’ve made the minut changes over time for me, it depends family, it depends on that human but, but for them to decide for them to decide, You know what, I’m gonna give this a go for three weeks and see how I feel about it. And then and then check back in, or I’m gonna, I’m gonna check in on it weekly, and see if it’s different for me and the week ahead. And what, what does it take? Because I know if you asked me five years ago, in fact, I think Facebook just reminded me from 10 years ago that I had posted, what do you do when you have an hour to yourself? Like, I have no idea, no idea what to do with it? And I think that’s a lot of us, right? We don’t know, we’re just going through the motions of doing so kind of when you have that first hour, that first moment to go, what is it that I enjoy doing? I have a ton of books, a ton of books that I haven’t read, because I wasn’t making space for reading, but I loved the idea of reading. I love learning. So then I started being intentional and making space to read books. Now. I just built it into a habit of well, this is why I do it.

Unknown Speaker 24:11
So I hope that answers your question. It really is dependent on the person. But look at the things that you wish you were getting to and start making space for that if you haven’t yet. Okay, so then what do you say, cuz you brought up a great point. And I think this is something we’re getting a little bit away from the work stuff, but I think it it all relates to like, how do we come up with how we refuel ourselves, because

Unknown Speaker 24:33
I was also someone who struggled with like, Okay, I’m a mom, I work a lot, I run my own business. And if I have free time, I should work more because I run my own business and there’s always more work to be done. I work from home, it’s right outside the kitchen. Like I can always just pop in and respond to a couple of emails. I had to do a lot of work to like really make lists of things that actually refuel me or that are my own interests or my own things that excite me that have nothing

Unknown Speaker 25:00
to do with anyone else, like that’s really a much more difficult thing I think, than what we might think. So do you have any kind of exercises or ways that we can kind of start to either brain dump the things that refuel us, or how we can kind of come up with some of those ideas? If we’re sitting here, like, I love what she’s saying, but I’m stuck on like, I don’t even know myself enough to figure out what that might be.

Unknown Speaker 25:21
I think that the first place is to look at the things that you’re watching other people doing going, I wish I could do that. That’s like the first thing. But then also, you know, for example, my I have a ton of books that I haven’t read, why am I not reading? I’m not reading because I’m not making it a priority. I’m not making that as as a time for me. So let me make sure I’m doing that.

Unknown Speaker 25:44
And just play with it. So just notice the things that you’re attracted to notice the things that you’re drawn to what magazines are you buying? Are you buying mindfulness magazines, but never practicing mindfulness? Perhaps making space to try mindfulness for 30 days is a thing to do?

Unknown Speaker 26:00
Are you really drawn to the pictures of people hiking and beautiful places? That’s it? How do you make space for you to go check out your common trails, like what’s an you know, download the app that that gives you the, the local trails and start hitting them? When can you do that maybe I make it every Sunday, that’s gorgeous, I’m gonna go do that in the morning, and then build and then build that into the practice of that and folding it in. I mean, if you read atomic habits, it’s all about connecting it to things you’re already doing. So

Unknown Speaker 26:30
you know, I always go to the grocery store on Sundays, I always change the sheets, Sunday mornings, that just became a thing. Now I go to the gym between the two of them, right? Like, and I go with my husband. So it’s like, and it’s a date. Um, but like, folding things in and just trying it and connecting it, but really looking at what are the things that you’re noticing other people do that you wish you could try and try it just pulled it in? And give it a go? Can I jump off on that? Is there like watching other people do what they’re trying to do? And like, okay, that kind of actually sounds fun. Um, there’s a moment, I think, where we as fundraisers, look at what others are doing. And then we have that moment of like, I will never be as good, I will never be as big I will never be as even capable of doing X, Y, and Z. Well, that becomes almost like that comparison is the thief of joy bit where like, I’m now looking at other people’s successes. I shouldn’t be doing this. Oh, crap. I’m not doing enough now. And then it collapses internally. I’ve worked on this a lot. And I feel like I need to address it. Because a number of people who are in this fundraising community will look at that you look at like LinkedIn, for example. LinkedIn has now become a, and it’s great. Kudos to everybody else who’s doing this. But he comes a brag bullet place now, where you’re like, it’s now become this. This fortress of mental hurdles, I have to get through to God, Jesus, and they’re doing this now. And I gotta shut it off. So how do we Yeah, so how do we, like get through that? Because I love what you’re saying, like, I want to try this, because that sounds good for me without getting overwhelmed of like, I’m not doing enough. Well, So Patrick, first, you just kind of took it into what you’re doing. workwise. And I want to anchor it back into like, this is what you do for yourself, care and enjoy that. Comparing within work is a whole other thing. But I’m dying. Because legitimately last night I saw someone post How are you guys making time space and the finances for all of these like facial care regimes, and taking the time to do all of that like an hour to get ready in the morning? Who has that anymore? And whatever? And what happened to just being able to journal for 30 minutes? Like why do I have to do all of these things for self care now, too, and I had a client recently tell me that somebody had come forward him and like, I am now diving into my woo book as an escape to my whatever else, everything else was, and now I’m still in that making space. And so to anchor it in, this is just more of an exploration phase of I don’t know what fuels me what fuels me.

Unknown Speaker 29:00
And when you’re fueling yourself, it doesn’t matter if you’re the best hiker in the world or not. You’re just going out into nature, because you want to be amongst nature and it brings you joy, there’s no more it’s not a it’s not a competition or a comparable, it’s just I saw them going out into nature that looked like that would bring me a lot of joy. So I want to go try it. Do I really like it? You know what? No, I didn’t because there was a lot of bugs. I don’t like bugs rightly whatever. It is just a self exploration of what really fuels you.

Unknown Speaker 29:30
I feel like we could we could spend a long time chatting about work comparison, but I think we’d go off course. Well, I think the word but I think the word comparison is really interesting too. Because I think a lot of in the nonprofit realm we take this work so personally, right? It is this is a personal business giving us personal donating his personal the career choices that we make within whatever program or service that we’re trying to get into becomes personal. So I think there’s this really weird blurred line, but I love that I love the again, it’s reframing

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Back to this is a little focusing on you. A It’s okay. It’s not selfish, it’s not in you’re not taking anything away from anybody else by just concentrating on you for a little bit. But I love that the fact that you’re hammering it home, I get it. Yeah. But it’s like what you want. This is not what everybody else is doing what you want. I mean, I think to hammer that home to people who are, especially in the nonprofit realm is so, so unbelievably important because it’s not done a lot. But Rachel, would you say that if we work on like, because I know we haven’t gone? We’ll we’ll dive into this next. But your your other strategy was like kind of a shift in mindset? And would you say that if we kind of shift into this internal space, and if we can really figure out what fuels us what lights us up, what makes us feel more

Unknown Speaker 30:48
productive, more engaged with our family, like we’re kind of building this kind of space for ourselves so that we can show up as our best version, that some of those comparison things, whether they be work related or personal, can kind of minimize a little bit because you feel more dialed in and connected to what you’re doing and why you’re doing it as opposed to needing to find validation in other places, to kind of, I think, I think it boils down to how much energy you have so many ties into the burnout, right? So like, as we’re sliding down the scale of energy, we’re getting in and before we’re quite on that puddle on the floor, we might have a lot of judgments and fear that are kind of building. And so it would make a lot of sense that that comparison would start kind of coming in Well, I’m not enough, because I’m not doing what you know, Sally Sue over here is doing. And that comparison part that can definitely come in. And

Unknown Speaker 31:38
I think that there’s an additional weight, kind of hitting on the space with people in nonprofit because like you mentioned, it’s so important to them to do the work that they’re doing, the mission that they’re serving, they want to serve so powerfully, and want to give so much for it. And I think that the invitation, ultimately is to pause for a moment and think about

Unknown Speaker 32:02
a time where you showed up into your workspace where you had so much joy and so much excitement. Versus the day you showed up with a lot of fear and judgment.

Unknown Speaker 32:13
Like what does that look like? And what are the results that you’re getting? Because I’m willing to bet that the days that you show up joyful and excited, you are able to serve even more powerfully than the days when you show up afraid

Unknown Speaker 32:30
and fearful and judgmental of how you’re showing up that it’s not enough, the more you you like have that internal dialogue happening, your the the results that you’re producing are a little bit different. And if I’m stepping into the shoes of specifically the fundraising part that Patrick brought up, I’m thinking that if you come to me from a space of oh my gosh, this is so amazing. And I’m so excited about this opportunity and this mission, and I want you to be a part of it, and I want you to put your money in it and back this, I’m more likely to give to that version, then we might close, we might not be able to like keep this going. Right? Think about like the strategies that you use when you’re fundraising like really like where do we tap into whichever the one of we might close might get people to push money at you quickly. But that won’t stay for a long period of time. Because if you’re constantly at fear of closing, you’re not doing something right with your money. And I’m not sure that I want to put any money into you.

Unknown Speaker 33:24
So if you look at that, from that same standpoint,

Unknown Speaker 33:27
investing in your self and your well being is critical to the mission. Because when you show up as your best self, because you’ve taken time to refuel yourself, and you’ve taken time to sleep and you’ve taken time to like move and you’ve taken time to eat healthy and and to pause to exercise the not just your legs, the other parts of your body or whatever, you know what I’m trying to say with that, right? Like I’m not just leaning into among taking a step back, to have that balance, you’re going to show up even more powerfully, you’re going to drive your mission even

Unknown Speaker 34:01
even stronger, I think is the word I was going for. So I think it boils down to creating boundaries and identifying. So shifting your mindset around some things, one, create boundaries, it’s going to be easier, especially as Patrick brought in, like the old world order of leadership. And the way that we show up and you’ve got to give it all and you got to be putting in 80 hours and you got to do whatever to be able to strongly put in those boundaries of I hear you but in order for me to do this, I need this and just set those boundaries and boundaries could be a whole other conversation right but like to be able to say it is important for me to do this.

Unknown Speaker 34:36
So I will but also to identify that if they are responsible for volunteers or they’re like leading up to like board board members or whatever. And they’re like, Oh, well, I’ve got to try to take on all of this work because then they’re not getting to it. They’re not showing up. They’re not able to hold them accountable to their work. That’s the other thing that kind of can lead to the burnout of this compassionate leader, especially nonprofit because you’ve got people that are showing it for free

Unknown Speaker 35:00
and you don’t want to put too much on them. And oh, they’re not quite getting it all done, I’ll just take care of it because I want to take care of them. And I just I know what needs to get done. So the more you’re taking on your plates, now a platter, and they’re walking around, like, I volunteered for this, but I didn’t really do anything great. But to shift that mindset to, you’re actually serving them by saying, Hey,

Unknown Speaker 35:26
this is this is yours to do, and you’re going to do it. And I’m not going to take it because you don’t want to take from them what they’re adding as value into the organization, shifting your mindset from, I’m asking too much of them to show up and do the work that they volunteered to do, because I feel bad about it, well, then then you can’t operate in an organization of volunteers. So you start looking into your your assumptions, your thought processes, and where are those boundaries needed to be an anchor back into why it’s valuable for you to take care of yourself? I think those mindset shifts are important. I think one of the real key parts that you mentioned, too, is actually having a conversation about it with the team and leads and everybody else you’re involved with board members, leadership team, yourself, your your friends and family. I think we do a disservice to us if we’d like to, we’re working through this in ourselves, but we’re not talking about it to anybody else. So we assume that they know that we’re doing this because we need to get into a mental clear space, and then they get mad because they’re not doing the fit, we’re not being transparent about it, or we’re a kind of sheltering it. And there’s a huge support group, I think that would be interested in getting you to a place that makes you feel great. And that puts you as you’re at your A game, if you communicate it in the first place. And actually and again, being curious about, you know, how would you handle this? Or what, what are you doing about this as Oh, how was your journey on, on giving yourself boundaries. And then because it’s talking about the boundaries, they’re gonna let you to describe and actually lay them out, you can’t just imaginary imaginarily, like, make your boundaries without explaining to everybody else, what your boundaries are in the first place. So you got to talk about it. And I think that’s Unbeliev, that’s one of the more crucial pieces that you added here is like, be open, say them out loud, number one, and then just like, then you can, then other people are held accountable to it as well, because they’ve heard it, can I add a very specific example to that,

Unknown Speaker 37:19
about communicating boundaries. So like we’re going into a crazy season, personally in my in my life, because my daughter is in a musical and my son’s starting spring tennis. So they’re like back to back. My afternoons are just crazy. And instead of just feeling stressed out and like having to decline meetings or whatnot, like I let all my clients know, hey, from this from April or from where are we march from, like from March until like the end of May, I have a very heavy load of things in the afternoons I didn’t, you don’t have to get specific, but my schedule is really shifting in the afternoons, I will not be able to take meetings after 2pm My time, or this period. So please just be prepared for that. Because I just set that expectation, it’s not doesn’t mean I’m not gonna get my work done. It doesn’t mean that anything else is changing with my contracts with my clients. But it’s just literally like, there is a shift in my schedule for the next month and a half. I just want you to be aware so that we can plan accordingly. And nobody gets mad about it. Like I think we also think people are going to assume we’re lazy, or we’re not doing the thing, but like they were Oh, great. Thank you so much. Now we can make sure that we set up our schedule accordingly. And we know in advance. So that’s just a real life example that just happened for me.

Unknown Speaker 38:29
This week. One of the things that happened during COVID was the rules kept changing, the rules of engagement kept changing, right? I remember going out to a restaurant, and we were eating outdoors. And I was like, I don’t know what to do, like, do I wear a mask doing not wearing masks? Do I need to have on blood? Like where do I put my hands? How do I engage with humans? I don’t know how to do any of this anymore. Because all shifted and changed and was constantly changing. And there was an anxiety about that, you know? And I think about that anytime I think about rules of engagement, which is what you just kind of hit on Sammy, I now know when I can show up. I now know when it’s good to put meetings on I now know when you’re thriving with that. So being able to sit down and communicate is really powerfully but I will say that one of the other biggest challenges for people that are compassionate leaders that are very heartfelt leaders is to set boundaries because there is something within our society that has taught us that we need to pull back our boundaries make space for other people to be gracious to like take care of them. That’s how that’s how we take care of them. And so one of the books that I’ve been recommending to all of my clients as of lately, I had to go back and listen to it again because I read it the first time this time I listened to it while I painted about them because I needed to re anchor into it because it’s coming up so much and that is to say it’s set boundaries find peace

Unknown Speaker 39:50

Unknown Speaker 39:52
NIDA, Glover

Unknown Speaker 39:55
to walk I think is her name

Unknown Speaker 40:00
I’ll make sure to link that in the replay of this video too. I just confirmed that is the author’s name mujer, Glover to set boundaries, find peace, a guide to reclaiming yourself. It’s a phenomenal book for this, because she really even teaches you like, as you set forth and make those boundaries. So Sammy, let’s say you make your boundary that I can’t call after two, I can’t do a meeting with you after two because you’re not available. And then I am like, oh, my gosh, I can only do this a time at three o’clock. And you’re like,

Unknown Speaker 40:32
Okay, let me figure it out, I’ll make it work, I’ll have to zoom in. Well, now I know I can do it.

Unknown Speaker 40:37
Thanks, think under personality, you’re gonna pull it back. And so your boundaries really, really weak. And what happens is, when we start setting boundaries, people are going to challenge it, not because they’re like, I’m going to challenge your your two o’clock, it’s more just they’re living in their own world. And forget, per se what that specific boundaries, or they have a difficulty adjusting to it. And,

Unknown Speaker 41:00
and so what we see is like, we’ll either get angry that they’re not honoring our boundaries, or we will get frustrated and pull our boundaries back and then have this whole thing like, I’m not even I tried to set boundaries, and it failed. But if we look at it from this other standpoint of, it’s just an adjustment period, and I have to hold on to it and how to continue to support and that boundaries are helpful for all of us that it is the rules of engagement. And then that gives you that confidence that lowered anxiety, you know exactly when and how to show up and engage can be really tremendous. But this book really touches in on what to do when you see that pushback and how to like navigate the mindset of it, and how to really kind of give yourself space, and even setting boundaries for yourself with your technology, because we all need to have a tech break every so often too. So I don’t check my emails after such and such time at night, and I won’t look at it again until such and such right, like giving yourself permission to do that. Whereas I grew up with the old world mentality of here’s your Blackberry. Yeah, BlackBerry, I just dated myself. And I’m also you will respond on Saturday, Sunday and forever. Because you now have this on you. And what a great what a wonderful gift we’ve given you. Yeah, so I grew up in that world. And I had to kind of adjust to and say, Okay, now this is my boundary and the mind blowing moments for people. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 42:20
15 minutes left. And so I want to make sure I asked one final question, which is like, if we’re listening to this, we’re like, okay, I want to create a better culture for my team, I want to make sure I’m integrating some of these things, I don’t understand my leadership style, or how you know, I can best go through this, I know you have a tool for this, but could you kind of talk about what a leadership archetype is, and how your tool can help kind of us navigate through that? Yeah, I found one really fast path. And for me to identify the mindset of the thought processes of the leaders that I was working with was to identify their archetype. And I do it through the way that they are setting up their goals, the way that they approach their goals can tell me so much. And

Unknown Speaker 43:03
so leadership archetype really kind of gives you that that snapshot of okay, this is the this is the archetype that I have. This is the type of leader I have. I am.

Unknown Speaker 43:12
I’m a warrior, I go in and get it done. That’s kind of maybe a little bit of that old world.

Unknown Speaker 43:18
Burn it, burn it, it all ends, or I’m the nurturer. I really want to take care of everybody I want to show up, I want to make sure you’re taken care of, or the optimist that’s looking at it, like, oh, it’s all gonna work out, it’s all gonna work out, it’s gonna be fine. It’ll be fine. And, and the way that we navigate and show up with that can show so much not only on how we’re showing up for ourselves, but how we show up for the people around us, whether we ourselves have teams that are reporting to us, for working with volunteers, or we’re just working to get things done for an individual contributor. I think knowing your leadership archetype can tell you so much and offer you quick tips on how to create those minor adjustments. Where do I need to plug the hole so that I am not burning out? And I’m not I’m not draining it out?

Unknown Speaker 43:58
And where can people access that. But they go to my website, which is www dot emerging Lotus coaching.com. At the very top, there’s a banner, click on that it takes you to the page, click the button and and it’s like five or six questions, and you’re done. You’ve got your results. So you can start there. And then also, I think that there’s I’m looking into your energy levels, which is that like, you can do an energy leadership index assessment with me, or anybody else that’s certified in there. And it really helps you break down like, what are the lenses at where, where’s my energy going, when things are good? Versus when where’s my energy going? When I’m stressed out? And how is that impacting me? And where’s my cycle of burnout? I can, I can often identify where the cycle of burnout is with my clients and just the ELA.

Unknown Speaker 44:43
That’s great, Patrick, any last questions that you have for Rachel? Yeah, well, it’s kind of like it would be a question, but it’ll be in the form of a comment, I’m sure because that’s how my brain works. It is it’s so part of the boundaries piece, which I think is just a fascinating

Unknown Speaker 45:00

Unknown Speaker 45:01
individuals in the nonprofit realm specially in fundraisers Don’t, don’t think of boundaries right out of the gate, right? Like, I just want to be everywhere to everybody at all times.

Unknown Speaker 45:11
Ironically, the best salespeople who eventually become the best, the best fundraisers have a very strict boundary. And it’s almost in a sense of not even offering people who you’re trying to meet with your entire calendar. It’s being very specific about the dates that you are available. And it does a couple of interesting things. I think, psychologically, to those who are potential funders and potential donors of like, this person, it makes you better in sales, because there’s a confidence about you. I’ve got this date on Thursday, between two and four is that does do these times work with you? You’re like, Oh, Jesus, yeah, this one does, right? You’ve forced them into a box. So you get to control yourself. They’re, the fewer options seems like you’re more wanted, that you’re that you’re a more

Unknown Speaker 45:57
booked up individual that people are just clamoring at the bid to get in front of you all the time. You’re not saying it, but you’re like, not not saying it. Grab a spot, there’s a sense of, of sort of urgency. And there’s almost an appeal of like, I’ve got this time, which means you’re not going any time is good for you to get some money, whatever. And there’s just like lack of lack of confidence when you offer them everything. And there’s this almost self control, self confidence you have when you say I’m available on these particular dates, and I’m not available here that you almost like, lose out when you’re just having a conversation that you don’t need to say I have boundaries. These are the times I’m available. And I just I when you were talking about that I just said, what a great thing to lean on. As somebody who is in sales are fundraising, that this is the key to sounding like, you know what the hell you’re doing, and you give this confidence booster, and you get your boundaries. At the same time, it was just a remarkable way that you laid that out. And I think that was fascinating. I think that brought me to a couple things that I think are really important to clarify, when I say I only have this, that’s my boundary with myself, even so like you’re setting boundaries with yourself, like I’m not saying that I’m not going to accept any calls after to during this this season. There’s a win by Daniel Pink, that really targets on when you are your best whatever for whatever type of work you’re doing, Patrick that even leans into, I can be intentional about my time, my time block for taking these types of calls. And these types of meetings, or here or here. Nobody needs to know what you’re doing in the other one, you’re just not offering them that time block, because that’s not the space for that for you. And then you’re able to show up as your best self and drive that mission even even fuller, Billy Yes, 100% people embrace it. And they respect it. I remember as a volunteer to an organization, I was like, I have exactly two hours a month to dedicate to this project. And they’re like, how did you figure that out. And that’s why I did a time budget. And I was able to set a boundary because I had complete awareness of that. And I think that that’s the other thing is just being aware of what you have available. And

Unknown Speaker 48:08
that by limiting it doesn’t make you less, it actually makes you more on demand. And it shows that power of oh, I only have this room to work with. Let me figure it out. Let me work with what they’ve got, you know, the consultant colleague that I meet with every month, and we just kind of hold these each other accountable. And

Unknown Speaker 48:29
she fascinates me because she comes every month with this Google Doc. And she lines out her big projects. And she lines up her hours that she’s willing to work each month, and then she’s like, Okay, well with these hours and the income I need to generate, I can do X amount of VIP days, I can, you know, take on X amount of clients. And she like breaks it down by hour, even though she doesn’t Bill hourly. But she’s taking in all of her things. And she’s like, so that means I’m going to be short X amount of this month. So now I have to decide if I’m like what it helps her prioritize so quickly, because one of her boundaries is I’m only going to work X amount of hours a month. And so she frames everything that way. And I think nonprofits can do the same thing, especially in fundraising, if you take a look at data and you’re tracking. So if you know, if I do 10 in person meetings each month, that’s going to lead to five, follow up meetings about whatever, like you can run your closing rate. And then you know, your boundary can be I only need to do 10 calls this month because I know if I do that consistently that’s going to yield the results that I need to hit my goals. If I increase it to more, that’s going to generate more money. So maybe that’s worth it or not, but like I think you can use a lot of those triggers to kind of generate from a money perspective as opposed to a scarcity perspective where you’re like, Well, I have to do all of the calls, because and burn myself out because otherwise I’m not going to make the money. Well who’s telling you that whose story is that? And that’s coming from a fear based lack kind of mindset and that’s creating your own limitation. So to

Unknown Speaker 50:00
To reduce that limitation, you step into like a broader, there’s your Will you step into that broader, like less judgmental, how, what is the opportunity and the time that I have available? What can I do with this bear? And as you got there 52 minutes, it took us there, but we got it, and I’m so happy about it.

Unknown Speaker 50:18
And I requests a crystal Tarot reading afterwards. So just no one does a crystal reading, but we’ll figure it out. No, don’t have a good time. I know, here’s but here’s, again, what you’ve said today is so unbelievably important to reiterate to everybody who’s in the fundraising space. And again, we laugh about the whoo kind of things we laugh about mindset. If you’re an old, if you’re an old guard, human being like mindset, my mindset should be you should work for 90 hours a week like that, we get it. But it’s so unbelievably important. If you don’t show up for yourself, he can’t show for anybody else. And we hear it. And it’s just a great reminder. Yeah, I just want to add one more thing. And I think that this is kind of what framed me and shifted me into this space and doing this work is that I watched that generation burnout, I watched them sacrifice their health, for their organizations, only to be laid off and not be re hireable. Because they were too whatever, at that stage, them waiting to learn how to play guitar, because they were too busy delivering for the organizations and not finding those moments of joy. I saw what that did. And I think that

Unknown Speaker 51:35
what we were doing to that generation was telling them that you’re a machine. And then when you’re used up, we’re done with you. And then you can go live your life and be a human. And instead, what I think I’m encouraging all of us to do and shift to as this mindset of we are humans now we will be humans later. And we need to start taking care of ourselves and taking care of our teams as humans, and identifying what those things are, what space is needed. How do we take care of we’re not we’re not a machine, we need sleep, we need nutrition, we need an outlet, we need physical movement. And truly we need connection, compassion. And a lot of that comes through the lens of communication. So really stepping into who you are as a leader. And understanding how you connect to and influence others, you can really produce some strong results when you start leaning into the magic of your organization being the humans that are in it, and treating them as such. I think that is probably the most perfect, beautiful bow to put on this session. I love I love that. And I think that was very well said.

Unknown Speaker 52:44
Rachel, this was amazing. We will have this in the student dashboard with all of the resources and links for everybody to watch the replay.

Unknown Speaker 52:54
Patrick, any final words that you have this was none of none will be better than that. That’s the problem. So I had a lot of I have a lot of words. Just none will be better than how that ended. So that was beautiful. Rachel, thank you again for your time. I really do appreciate so reading and figuring out what those words are. We’ll get exactly yes. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 53:16
Thank you for having me. Thank you for inviting me to be here and to share this with your community. I appreciate it. Love it. We will see everybody in April for our next guest expert training and Happy Wednesday. Happy first day of spring, officially. I love it. Yay. We’ll see everybody later. Bye gang.


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